Live Long and Master Aging podcast

Episode

188

Boosting omega-3 intake without fish oil burps

Janne Karin Sande & Stuart Phillips: EO3

BY PETER BOWES | WEDNESDAY JUNE 8, 2022

Make sure you’re getting your daily dose of fish oil.  It is one of the basic rules of nutrition and there is no argument that omega-3 fatty acids are very important for our health. But those fishy burps are irksome. The science behind – and our understanding of omega-3 oils – has come a long way. In today’s episode we’re going to explore how nano-dispersion technology is being used to fuel our bodies with a new smoothie, EO3 (Enhanced Omega-3), without the downside of unpleasant belching. In collaboration with EO3, LLAMA brought together the company’s founder, Janne Karin Sande, who’s based on Oslo, Norway, and Prof. Stuart Phillips, director of the Physical Activity Centre of Excellence (PACE) at McMaster University, in Ontario, Canada, to discuss the drink, which contains Norwegian cod liver oil and protein.  

Prof. Phillips sits on the scientific advisory board for EO3.

Connect with:

Janne Karin Sande and EO3:  Website | Twitter | Facebook | Instagram | YouTubeDr. Phillips: McMaster University | PACE | Facebook | Twitter

Read a transcript

Listening options: Apple PodcastsAudibleStitcherTuneinSpotifyPandora PodcastsGoogle Podcasts

Related LLAMA episode: Prof. Stuart Phillips – Boosting Physical Strength as we age.

  • This episode is brought to you in association with EO3, the ready to drink product, made with fish oil and protein,  designed to help athletes train faster and harder with optimum recovery. Backed by science EO3 is a complete nutritional solution for cognitive and physical benefits. A better way to get the Omega 3 your body needs

“Omega-3’s were very crucial for me to manage to deliver because I’ve taken cod liver oil all my life, and I know that fish oil is so good for you.”

Janne Karin Sande

Topics covered in this interview include

  • The inspiration behind EO3 founder Janne Karin Sande’s idea to create the fish oil product
  • The influence of nature and fresh food and ability to live long
  • The challenge of creating a tasty drink without compromising on the power of fish oil
  • The role of omega-3 fatty acids in the human body and why we need them in our diet
  • Filling the gaps in the average person’s diet
  • What are the symptoms of a deficiency of Omega-3?
  • Nurturing muscle recovery, preventing frailty and cognitive decline
  • The science behind nano-dispersion technology
  • Why combine fish oils with whey protein?
  • The cornerstones of healthy longevity

DoNotAge.org is offering listeners to LLAMA a 10% discount on its range of products – NAD boosters, Sirtuin activators, senolytics and more.Use the code LLAMA at checkout. Any health queries can be answered by emailing the team at hello@donotage.org

Affiliation disclosure: This podcast receives a small commission when you use the code LLAMA for purchases at DoNotAge.org – it helps to cover production costs and ensures that our interviews remain free for all to listen. 


This interview with Janne Karin Sande and Stuart Phillips was recorded on June 5, 2022 and transcribed using Sonix AI. Please check against audio recording for absolute accuracy.

Janne Karin Sande: [00:00:00] There’s something there that made me want to put together nutrients that are fresh, that are beneficial. Omega-3’s were very crucial for me to manage to deliver because I’ve taken cod liver oil all my life, and I know that fish oil is so good for you.

Peter Bowes: [00:00:19] Janne Sande is an entrepreneur and the inventor of a new recovery drink for athletes. What could the science behind it also tell us about living a long, healthy life? Hello again. Welcome to the Live Long and Master Aging podcast. I’m Peter Bowes. This is where we explore the science and stories behind human longevity.

SPONSOR MESSAGE: [00:00:40] This episode is brought to you in association with EO3, a ready to drink product made with fish, oil and protein designed to help athletes train faster and harder with optimum recovery. Backed by science EO3 is a complete nutritional solution for cognitive and physical benefits. A better way to get the omega-3 your body needs.

Peter Bowes: [00:01:09] It is perhaps one of the oldest nutritional rules of healthy living. Make sure you’re getting your daily dose of fish oil. Well, the science behind and our understanding of omega-3 oils has come a long way. And in today’s episode, we’re going to explore how something called nano dispersion technology could be something of a game changer when it comes to fueling our bodies. Janne Sande, welcome to the Live Long and Master Aging podcast.

Janne Karin Sande: [00:01:36] Thank you very much.

Peter Bowes: [00:01:38] And you are talking to us, if I’m correct, from the beautiful city of Oslo in Norway.

Janne Karin Sande: [00:01:42] Absolutely. I am. yes

Peter Bowes: [00:01:44] Really good to have you. We’re also joined by Professor Stuart Phillips, director of the Physical Activity Center of Excellence (PACE) at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario, in Canada. Stuart is an old friend of the podcast. We’ve talked previously about the importance of maintaining physical strength as we age. Stuart welcome back.

Stuart Phillips: [00:02:04] Very pleased to be on the show, Peter. Thanks for having me back on.

Peter Bowes: [00:02:07] It’s a great pleasure. And Stuart, you’re going to help us dig into the science relating to Omega-3. There’s a lot to digest there, no pun intended.

Stuart Phillips: [00:02:15] Yeah,

Peter Bowes: [00:02:15] Janne let’s start with you. I mentioned that you invented EO3 Enhanced Omega-3. Can we step back and explain your area of expertize, your career to date, and what led you to this?

Janne Karin Sande: [00:02:30] Yes, I’d like to. You know, I’ve always been interested in nutrition and health. My education is in journalism and business. So, you know, very different from what I’m actually doing right now or what I’ve been doing for the last 20 years.

Peter Bowes: [00:02:45] And a little personal aside there, I understand you mentioned you trained as a journalist. You actually trained in my hometown.  

Janne Karin Sande: [00:02:52] Yes

Peter Bowes: [00:02:53] Quite a coincidence. Small little town, Darlington in England.

Janne Karin Sande: [00:02:56] Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. I’m from the west coast of of Norway. Eventually, you know, a beautiful place, a fjord up in the West Coast. When I grew up, you know, I was used to eating fresh fish. My older relatives, they really used the nature to find the food, you know, the berries, the herbs. We had home grown vegetables. So I early on, you know, I saw what nature could bring of fresh foods. And my older relatives, they got very old and they were very active and they were smiling. So I think there’s something there that also made me want to put together nutrients that are fresh, that are beneficial, and see if I could come up with a good formulation of nutrients. And Omega-3s were very crucial for me to manage to deliver because I’ve taken cod liver oil all my life. And I know that fish oil is so good for you.

Peter Bowes: [00:03:55] Well, that’s what I want to delve into in a moment with Stuart. We’ve all heard since we were children that fish oil is good for you, but maybe, perhaps not fully understand the the ingredients that go into it. Just one other question for you. How does a journalist who clearly has a passion for this and an interest in this move into what is essentially a scientific realm? I assume it’s all about the collaborations and people that you’re working with.

Janne Karin Sande: [00:04:18] Yeah, well, I have three kids and when they were small, I wanted them to take omega-3s as well. You know, cod liver oil is not pleasant. They didn’t want it and I think a lot of kids don’t want it. And then, you know, I wanted to build a business. I wanted to do something in nutrition, and I wanted actually to have then an Omega-3 formulation for kids. And I knew that it would have to taste better. So, I started to work on the emulsion format. I learned and failed and tried again, you know, to see how I could stabilize these fatty acids, these very unstable fatty acids. And eventually I and I read a lot and I talked to people who know knows a lot. So eventually I managed to find a way to stabilize the fish oil in emulsions and then gradually made it more into a liquid form because a good tasting drink is something that is very attractive to kids, but not only kids to I think to everybody, if you make it taste nice, you know, eventually it was the taste that was the main target. But then I also, through doing a lot of experiments, working with scientists and reading, I understood also that there’s actually more than just a taste benefit of keeping these fatty acids stable and fresh. It’s also about the health benefits that are preserved. And when you also combine these then stable fatty acids with other nutrients, like, for example, protein, and have a rich source of antioxidants and phytochemicals from plants, then you actually create a very, very healthy food. You know, you don’t just deliver a single nutrient, you deliver a complex superfood.

Peter Bowes: [00:06:01] Yeah, you’ve covered a lot of fascinating ground there. So, Stuart, let me bring you in now to join some of the dots and fill in some of the gaps. But maybe, first of all, just remind us about the work that you do with PACE and what brought you to this point and especially your interest in this subject.

Stuart Phillips: [00:06:16] Yeah, it’s interesting, actually. I think Janne and I have known each other now for maybe 12 or 14 years. And the circumstances of our, you know, getting to meet each other were that I was looking at designing or thought, you know, these are some ingredients that we’ve seen separately have independent effects on people’s muscle. And all the way back to the first time you and I spoke my mission in PACE and a lot of the research that we do is about helping people age as effectively as they can. And we think that muscle strength and muscle mass are a key part of that and the ability to maintain mobility as we go into later age. And, you know, there’s probably a handful of ingredients that you could put together to say, you know, this works, this works and this works. And and I think, you know, to put some light on to it, it would be that, you know, having been trained as a biochemist, they all work through different pathways. And I think that that’s an interesting point because it means that neither is really redundant with the other. And I thought, you know, be great if we had a drink or something that could do this and could have this and could have this. And I did some searching around and lo and behold, Janne actually made the drink  I was pretty much thinking would would be a good combination. And I thought, you know what, this is great, but this stuff, there’s no way that it can taste good because, you know, I’m sure probably lots of people have tried some of the early days of omega-3 fatty acid capsules and the fish odor and smell. And then the you know, if you happen to burp afterwards how that tastes. Yeah. And yet here, you know, so Janne said, well, listen, I’ll send you some drink. And so I kind of readied myself when I first tasted it and I tasted I said, What is it? This is too good to be true, you know? So and that was the start of it. And it’s been some some time since that we’ve sort of tried to bring it all back together. But E03 is the culmination of a lot of Janne’s hard work and the science that initially I’ll admit I thought this would be a good idea, but that that Janne had already scooped me on. So I think it’s a pretty cool product and I’ll vouch for the taste. It’s it’s tasty for sure.

Peter Bowes: [00:08:36] That’s good to hear. So let’s go back to basics then and talk about initially why Omega-3 fatty acids or omega-3 oils are important to us. Why do we need them?

Stuart Phillips: [00:08:46] Yeah. I mean, I think the important point to realize and you know, we may have touched on this in the last time we chatted, is to say that, you know, carbohydrates and fats, when we ingest them, they’re fuel for the most part. But some fats that we ingest, and particularly the omega-3 or long chain polyunsaturated fatty acids are actually what we refer to as essential fats. We need to have them in our diet because we don’t have the ability to make them ourselves. You know, having said that, the estimates are that we need a very small amount of these oils. But I think what we’re talking about here with this drink is to go beyond just what’s essential and a minimal dose into what we believe are more optimal dose ranges. And so these lipids form integral parts of membranes in our cells, particularly in neural cells or brain nerve cells and interestingly enough, in muscle cells as well. And they probably have functions beyond which we’re completely aware. But one place where they do have an interesting function is actually changing the membrane of mitochondria in our cells. And, you know, the links to mitochondrial function and aging and all kinds of debilitating diseases are obviously many. And these long chain fatty acids are able to enhance mitochondrial function. And I’ll have to admit that that was that was something that was surprising to me. But we had backed that up with research that was actually independent of our association with with Janne and her team.

Peter Bowes: [00:10:17] And we need to or it’s suggested that we perhaps should be supplementing because we don’t eat perfect diets that we and especially athletes, which I know are a large part of your target audience with this product. But we don’t eat perfect diets. We don’t necessarily get everything that we need from whether it’s meat or vegetables or fruits that we eat.

Stuart Phillips: [00:10:40] I think it would be an understatement to say we don’t eat perfect diets for the average person for sure. But, you know, I think that that’s part of it. A lot of people obviously don’t eat. I mean, the recommendations in Canada and the United States. In Norway, it’s a non-issue because the Norwegians eat so much fish. It’s not really a big deal, but are to, you know, substitute out some of the meat that we would otherwise eat and particularly red meat and replace it with fish. And people just don’t do. To the extent that they probably should. Now, the Scandinavians in general, but the Norwegians in particular are, you know, voracious consumers of fish. And I don’t think it’s you know, it’s an issue there. But the doses of fish that we’re talking about with the Omega-3s in EO3, for example, would even challenge most Norwegians to get that amount of fish in a given day. So it’s it’s an enhanced definitely version of Omega-3, and it’s certainly something that most North Americans anyway would struggle greatly to get with respect to diet. So it’s skipping a lot of steps with the biochemistry and giving you the end product from the fish itself, which is it’s difficult, if not impossible to get in usually.

Peter Bowes: [00:11:52] And of course, you work with athletes, athletes of all ages. Was that a correct assumption of mind that perhaps athletes more than your everyday person need this kind of supplementation?

Stuart Phillips: [00:12:03] Well, you know, again, you know, people like to think that athletes are somewhat special. Of course they are. But they’re like they’re like the rest of us. They’re pressed for time, in fact, maybe more pressed for time, given some of their training schedules. So, yeah, they don’t even come close in terms of meeting the types of omega three intakes that that we’re talking about here. So yeah, they would probably benefit from the intakes of omega three fatty acids from a muscle standpoint, a regeneration and recovery standpoint, but maybe from other standpoints as well that we’re not even realizing. And it could be something to do with inflammation as well, for example, most people are pretty familiar with the Omega three link in cardiovascular disease. I don’t think for athletes that’s as big an issue. But there are benefits to to these fatty acids that are, you know, more than just the cardiovascular health benefits that we’re familiar with.

Janne Karin Sande: [00:12:56] It’s been really wonderful to see that athletes and, you know, professional athletes, professional teams wants to use the drink for their muscle recovery. But, you know, older people or people in their middle ages are going into their older years. You really have to prevent things from happening. You know, you have to prevent sarcopenia. You have to prevent cognitive decline. You really have to take care of self health so that the cells can can function as well as possible. Get rid of the waste, you know, all the signaling they have to do. And then then omega-3 fatty acids are so important that also the proteins, you know, the combination of omega three and proteins for the muscles and also I believe the phytochemicals in there, for example, thymoquinone from black cumin oil, the carnitine, you know, things that are in there for a reason and very much to help with processes like chronic inflammation, oxidative stress, things that we know very easily becomes a part of growing older.

Peter Bowes: [00:13:59] Stuart mentioned when he first, when Stuart you first tasted this drink, your first thought was this is too good to be true based on past experience with fish oils. So Janne in terms of the formulation, what have you done? What is so special that you’ve managed to get around that and make it more palatable?

Janne Karin Sande: [00:14:17] Well, it took a long time for sure and a lot of trials to see how I could do it. But I never wanted to put anything in there which would compromise on health, you know? So I don’t add any sugar, I don’t add any sweeteners or preservatives. It’s very much a food of natural components, and the nutrients are there to protect each other, but also to enhance each other’s to create synergy. And I guess I’ve been lucky to, you know, because I’m not a scientist, but it’s a lot of work. Yeah.

Peter Bowes: [00:14:49] Clearly this isn’t just you as it. You have a collaborative team of people who are well versed in the science.

Janne Karin Sande: [00:14:55] Yes, absolutely. I worked with very clever people in food technology and read obviously a lot and then also have had very nice collaborations with, for example, a Stuart who has done so much research on omega-3s and proteins. And that inspired me of course, also when it comes to what I wanted to put in there.

Peter Bowes: [00:15:16] I wanted to delve into I mentioned nano dispersion technology up at the beginning in terms of exactly what that is and how this drink and ultimately its effects benefit from it. Maybe Stuart you could take that one.

Stuart Phillips: [00:15:31] Yeah. I mean, I think that there’s a number of hurdles to overcome that Janne’s drink has really been pretty revolutionary in this area. So first it’s the combination. As Janne mentioned, it’s not just omega-3 fatty acids, but it delivers a substantial payload of those fatty acids. It has protein in there, which is again another fuel that you and I have spoken about as being a key part of muscle regeneration and recovery. The nano dispersion is really a technology that allows really efficient uptake of these omega-3 fatty acids, and that’s to contrast it with you know, a lot of people would say, why don’t I just take a fish oil pill with a pill, for example? We do know that the dispersion of these liquids into these very small droplets results in a much more efficient uptake and much more efficient than just pills alone. So and it’s sort of recapitulating, if you want to think about it in this way, the food matrix. And one of the things that we do know is that the food matrix has interactions and promotes uptake generally more efficiently than a form of the food and in isolation, which would be the pills. And so it’s a ready to drink. It is tasty. I mean, again, I can compare and contrast it to medical foods in this space that were very high in omega-3 fatty acids designed for patient populations. And without being unkind, it really had a poor taste profile and that was probably the reason why they were called medical food. But this is something that would give the same dose of these fatty acids, if not more, and is enhanced in its efficiency to promote muscle recovery because of other ingredients that are in there. So the protein is one. Janne can list lots of others for you, but it’s also suspended inside, you know, a natural poly phenolic matrix. And these are these polyphenols come from the fruits that are part of the extract that is added to the drink. You know, I don’t think I can stress it enough is to say that one thing that we know happens with fish oil pills is that the omega-3s become oxidized and oxidized omega-3 fatty acids may actually be, you know, deleterious for your health. And everything in the E03 formulation is maintained in a reduced state. And that’s just a natural fact of the nano dispersion technology in combination with the fruit juices and their natural ability to be able to maintain things in a reduced state. And you know, all of that because those are all questions I had for Janne when we first started. I said, What about this? She says, We’ve tested that. What about this? We’ve tested that. And I was like, You know, it’s impressive. So full credit to Janne and her teams and her persistence and what she’s not telling you. There’s three kids in the background there. They’re probably ate various formulations of the drink somewhere along the way and said, this one is terrible mom, try another one.

Janne Karin Sande: [00:18:34] I think that’s actually one of the reasons I couldn’t stop, you know, because they pushed me. They were telling me what they didn’t like it, so I had to go on.

Peter Bowes: [00:18:42] Well, it’s always good to have what readily available trial subjects I suppose. Yeah. You’ve, you’ve both mentioned the combination here with protein. I assume this is whey protein. This is animal protein. A lot of people listening to this might be wondering if there is a plant based protein formulation that would work as well? 

Janne Karin Sande: [00:19:01] Well, yes, it would work. But at the moment, we have whey protein. It’s a combination of well, that’s mainly whey protein. There’s also some collagen. I know that there’s very good health benefits of of whey protein. So I like to use that. But maybe further down the road, we might also have a version with a plant protein for sure. Yeah.

Peter Bowes: [00:19:23] So do you have any thoughts on or even preferences in terms of the source of protein?

Stuart Phillips: [00:19:28] Yeah. I mean, one of the things when when I first spoke to Janne with the idea that this would be used in older individuals and, you know, rewind to the podcast previously when you and I spoke it is to talk about the importance of the amino acid leucine. So, you know, just to remind your listeners that it’s really leucine is sort of the key component of all of the 20 components that make up protein, 20 amino acids, that it’s like the brick that goes into the wall that starts the whole process. And so the abundance of that amino acid is is highest in whey protein. So it makes sense to use whey protein in this context. And as a result, it lets you use less protein, to be honest with you, to, to trigger the full what we call muscle anabolic response. And I think that that’s pretty important for athletes and particularly older people in terms of turning on their rate of muscle regeneration after something physical activity wise. So I think whey’s a good choice. I think that the world of plant proteins now is changing really, really quickly. You know, my own understanding even has meant that, you know, there are some plant proteins that ten years ago I would have said I wouldn’t bother that. Now I think that have been purified to the state and appear in forms that make them much more readily available. So it’s definitely a consideration with with Janne’s formulation that it could be plant based in the future for sure.

Peter Bowes: [00:20:56] We’ve talked about the benefits what are the symptoms of a deficiency of Omega-3?

Stuart Phillips: [00:21:02] Well, I mean, you know, the outward sign if you’re absolutely devoid of Omega-3. There’s all kinds of neurological symptoms that occur, or if you don’t have the capacity to make them or if you don’t have some of these fatty acids around if during infancy and particularly then there are symptoms to do with cognitive function later in life, I don’t know that anybody would experience any sort of true deficiency symptoms, but I do think that what we’re talking about here is an augmentation of function. When you do get these things in the doses that we’re talking about in the drinks that are available. So one of the things that, again, speaking anecdotally to athletes is that, you know, they feel that they’re getting a benefit from it. What that means, I don’t know. One of the things that we do know from research is that they experience lower levels of muscle soreness the next day after a pretty intense workout. And Janne’s got those types of data from previous work with some some collaborators of mine, and that would probably be the outward manifestation that most athletes would be able to point to, to say, yeah, there’s something different about this and it’s the soreness issue and they report at least that they feel more ready or able to play or engage in some type of practice. Tough to quantify that, I’ll admit, but it is out there in a couple of published papers.

Peter Bowes: [00:22:23] Janne is the data? Can you tell us about the data that supports this?

Janne Karin Sande: [00:22:27] Yes. Well, we I was involved in a in a study with Stirling, University of Stirling some years ago, and they did a study where they compared formulation of the drink to just having protein or just having carbohydrates. And it was clearly the combination of omega-3 protein and carbohydrates that made them perform best and also have less muscle soreness. But I also wanted to, you know, on your question, Peter, about, you know, how do you notice if you have Omega-3 deficiency? It’s not easy to notice, but I think it’s so crucial for your overall health to have a good ratio when, you know omega-3:omega-6 ratio that I think I would really encourage people to to do a test to see how the ratio is because there’s also now, you know, there’s so many published papers, of course, on Omega-3s, but there was also a recent paper in nature a communication showing that there’s actually a strong correlation between Omega-3 levels. And overall, how do you say it, death, you know, and of different courses so it’s actually linked to lifespan and knowing that omega-3s are so important for the cells. You know like you mentioned, the the cell membrane, which is so important for what is coming into the cells, how the cells manage to do their work. I think it’s a good investment to find out how your levels are.

Peter Bowes: [00:24:00] Well, you mentioned lifespan and Stuart and I talked about health span. The main sort of aspiration of what I talk about on this podcast, those a number of years that we live with optimum health in terms of enjoying life before hopefully quite a fast decline ultimately to death, but to put off those chronic diseases for as long as possible. And clearly this is of interest for those people, hopefully everyone who aspires to that kind of ultimately a lifespan, but the healthspan that they can enjoy life.

Janne Karin Sande: [00:24:29] For sure.

Peter Bowes: [00:24:29] So who is using the product now and what kind of feedback? We’ve talked extensively about athletes, but what about other communities and what have they said to you?

Janne Karin Sande: [00:24:40] Yes, well, the product is has for the last two years, it has mainly been used by athletes because we have had a soft launch just targeting athletes and professional clubs both in the US but also in the UK. And luckily we’ve, you know, I’m really glad that we’ve had a good feedback from them, but now we want to because you know, with getting the experience from these consumers or this group, we now want to broaden the scope and make the product available to everybody who wants to take care of their health and who wants to prevent illness and keep healthy. EO3 is is now being launched just a couple of months ago to a broader audience in the US. So it’s very new actually that we go for a broader audience.

Peter Bowes: [00:25:32] And I’m just interested in its, let’s say its position in the marketplace. Is this a convenient drink? Is it a convenient ready to consume product that you can simply grab on and off you go? Is that how we think about it, or do we think of it more as a supplementation in terms of the omega-3 and the fatty acids that we’re getting, that perhaps we’re not getting in other aspects of our diet, I suppose. What is the incentive? What are we thinking when we grab this particular drink?

Janne Karin Sande: [00:26:00] I hope that people see it as a daily nutritional drink that has the ability to help them keep healthy and prevent illness. But it’s more than just a healthy drink. You know, it has more properties than a healthy drink, but it’s difficult to exactly say because it is a food. It’s not it’s not a pill, it’s not a capsule, it’s a food. But I like to think of it as a superfood, to be honest. Yeah.

Peter Bowes: [00:26:30] And my I suppose the thought behind that question and Stuart maybe you can tackle this one is that I talk a lot with different organizations and scientists about supplementation and there’s a lot of good work going on around the world with different aspects of supplementation that benefit us in different ways. And I think for everyday people there’s a certain amount of confusion and there’s also a decision that has to be made perhaps on financial grounds in terms of what do I do, where do I stop and what do I need most? And for a lot of people, it’s very difficult to make that decision, isn’t it?

Stuart Phillips: [00:27:05] Yeah, I think, you know, given the ingredients of the drink, I mean, it delivers about about 20 grams of protein. It’s high quality protein. It’s got, you know, two and a half grams of fish oil, which is a tough dose to get by eating fish. It’s got other ingredients that are fruit based. I mean, that’s what gives it a the good taste and the natural antioxidant status. So to me, it is it is a ‘ready to drink.’ It’s you know, it comes in a carton. It would take I mean, if I were a consumer and I were taking fish oil pills, it’s obviously you could argue that it’s a replacement for that. But on a value proposition basis, you would say, well, fish oil pills are much cheaper. And I would say you’re absolutely correct, but it’s more than just fish oil pills. Are you taking a protein supplement? Well, yes, I am. And I’m like, well, now you’ve got the two in one, but you’ve got other ingredients as well that add to the effectiveness of the drink. Carnitine is in. Another compound which we think has important properties for fat metabolism. So I do think that it’s it’s something that reaches into different market segments. And I look at it more as a food rather than a supplement, even though it’s an enhanced food. So, you know, Janne is fond of saying superfood. And and I think that that’s an appropriate tag. It really is something that, you know, is part of your breakfast or for athletes, obviously, we always talk about post-exercise as a recovery agent because it’s liquid, it’s got some carbohydrate to restore muscle glycogen stores and it’s got the protein there. The Omega-3s are from an aging perspective, I can say that there’s a positive and growing body of evidence to suggest that they are anti sarcopenic as well. So they attenuate or mitigate muscle loss as we age. So, you know, to me, it’s it’s something that you can incorporate as part of your your normal diet. It could take the place of a juice of breakfast or a smoothie or something like that. And you wouldn’t have to feel that you would need to take then probably two or three supplements that are part of the drink. So it it ticks a lot of boxes and yeah, I know I’ve said this before, but the unlock is clearly how, how good it tastes. So it’s, it’s, it’s become part of my routine, let’s put it that way.

Peter Bowes: [00:29:29] Interesting. And just for reasons of full disclosure, this is an episode that is sponsored by EO3, and I always think it is important to be transparent about things. Stuart, you say that the two of you have been friends for some time, but you’re looking at this as an independent scientist and your first thought was one of skepticism and you wanted to learn more?

Stuart Phillips: [00:29:48] I’m always as scientist, trained to be skeptical, so I was always skeptical. And I think I mean that, you know, you taste it at first and you’re like, really? You know? And I will give Janne and her collaborators credit. They’ve they’ve invested a serious amount of product and money in the science that backs up the ingredients that are there. I think when you begin to piece together the other information that other individuals have from various different parts of the beverage, you begin to tell a story. I do sit on the scientific advisory board for EO3. I don’t get any financial compensation for that. So you can you can say, yes, you have a vested interest. The vested interest they have in it is science. But, you know, I think, again, if you have a choice to make around money to spend on which supplements you were looking at in terms of the aging space, this is one that it’s not the sort of specialized ingredient. It’s normal dietary components, but in an enhanced fashion and combined together in one package. And, you know, that for me reduces a lot of barriers. I like fish, but I don’t like it so much that I could eat as much as I would have to eat to get the type of dose that EO3 has. That’s for sure.

Peter Bowes: [00:31:05] Interesting. And Janne just broadening things out a little bit. And this is often you could say one of my favorite end of interview questions, and that is talking about your broader long term approach to your own longevity. This is a podcast about human longevity, aspiring to live as long and as as well as we can. And I think you touched on this in your first answer, and that led to your interest in this. But do you think about your own longevity and your own life and physical capabilities in the decades to come?

Janne Karin Sande: [00:31:37] Absolutely. I’m so glad that we we have the ability to help our own body and mind to have a better life. I mean, of course, you can only do so much, but still you can do quite a lot. And I’m so encouraged also by the the science now which is happening in the longevity space. So I’m going on I really want to see if I can maybe include other things in the drink to do even more. But that will take time. But for now, I drink EO3 every day of course. I exercise and have good friends and I think all of those things will help me.

Peter Bowes: [00:32:13] Well, I think you’ve you’ve actually just touched on in the final few seconds of your answer, the three components that I talk about a lot and that is having good friends and is your diet. And Stuart, I think you agree clearly it’s your exercise regime as well.

Stuart Phillips: [00:32:24] Well, exercise is the cornerstone. I’m not I’m not step away from that. But I think you’re right. I mean, I think that aging and longevity and definitely healthspan is is a function of the foods you eat, the activity that you do, and and the friends or the causes you keep. So for sure.

Peter Bowes: [00:32:41] Well, this has been really interesting. I’d like to thank you both. I’d like to Janne wish you all the best with your endeavors.  

Janne Karin Sande: [00:32:48] Thank you so much.

Peter Bowes: [00:32:48] I’m going to watch to see how this develops. And you say you’re moving into the US market more and more?

Janne Karin Sande: [00:32:52] Oh, yeah. I mean, the U.S. is our primary market, so. Absolutely.

Peter Bowes: [00:32:57] Best of luck with it. Thank you both.

Janne Karin Sande: [00:32:59] Thank you very much, Peter. Thank you.

Stuart Phillips: [00:33:00] Thank you, Peter.

Peter Bowes: [00:33:01] Good to talk to you. And if you’d like to find out more about EO3, the company website is DrinkEO3.com This episode of the podcast was produced in association with E3. I’ll put some more details into the show notes at our website LLAMApodcast.com — That’s LLAMApodcast.com. There’s also a transcript of this conversation there. This has been a Healthspan Media Production. We’ll be back very soon with another episode. Thank you so much for listening.

The Live Long and Master Aging podcast, a HealthSpan Media LLC production, shares ideas but does not offer medical advice.  If you have health concerns of any kind, or you are considering adopting a new diet or exercise regime, you should consult your doctor.

Follow us on twitter: @LLAMApodcast